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Elsebeth Rhiannon SoE Roughriders Electus Matari 833	Posted - 2017.05.08 13:53:13 - [1] - Quote A history lesson follows. Some of the people here might still remember how ten years ago, there was fighting in The Bleak Lands [1], threatening to push is into a hot war with the Amarr Empire. The Republic eventually caught the trouble maker Karishal Muritor [2] and the war fizzled. Plenty of capsuleers then and today place Karishal's blood on Karin Midular's hands. It is less remembered today that it was also Malaetu Shakor that spoke against the escalation of the war by the traitor Karishal Muritor [3]. When it was found out that Karin Midular had been in talks with the Ammatar tribe to bring them to the fold, there was a huge outcry [4]. The terrorist group Bloody Hands of Matar worked against this, and pretty much succeeded for a while [5]. When we found out about the existence of the Starkmanir [6, 7], it was Karin Midular's appointed ambassador [8] who knew of the Elder Fleet and enough of the situation to make threats to OCNCORD [9]. It was still her Fleet, when we let it pass through our territory unharmed [10] Yet it was Malaetu Shakor - who had himself spoken against open war in the Bleak Lands only a year earlier remember - who ceased that historical moment to advance his own agenda and call the achievements of her government "appeasement" [11]. When Karin Midular dissolved the parliament to advance the goals of the tribes, riots broke out and she was - rightfully, mind you - called on it [12]. Yet when the same parliament was murdered by the Thukker without trial for being corrupt [13], people were quick to support the calls for Malaetu Shakor to replace it [14]. And so, when it is all already done, he returned and played the part of the savior [15]. And there was much rejoicing [16] and a remarkable lack of mention of how you can end up murdered in a purge if you disagree in the parliament. It does not take much to win an election when you are the only candidate [
Elsebeth Rhiannon SoE Roughriders Electus Matari 833	Posted - 2017.05.08 13:53:21 - [2] - Quote (reserved)(contGÇÖd) There is much speecifying and some incredibly wonderful poll numbers [23] and military posturing [24]. (Meanwhile, Sebiestor tribe members again save the Starkmanir, while ShakorGÇÖs council is busy talking [24]. No one pays much attention.) Then, quite suddenly, a lone gunman attacks a congress where the Sebiestor tribal chief, former Prime Minister Karin Midular happens to be on stage [25]. RSS makes quick action to recover the shooter [26]. The Republic also makes quick requests to have Karin Midular in their hands, dismissing or trying to dismiss offers of medical aid by both the Federation [27] and The State [28]. She dies [29]. The Minmatar government is so keen to recover the shooter that they almost start a shooting war with the Federation over it [30]. They finally get what they want, and the shooter is quickly and effectively silenced forever [31]. Karin Midular is replaced on the tribal council by Acassa Midular, a known GÇ£sharp critic of the old parliamentary systemGÇ¥ [32. Five years pass. The toy war comes and goes. The silence grows so loud it hurts my ears.
Elsebeth Rhiannon SoE Roughriders Electus Matari 838	Posted - 2017.05.08 14:20:41 - [3] - Quote I don't have one, Miz. That is the problem. It's a war of attrition and we've lost.
Elsebeth Rhiannon SoE Roughriders Electus Matari 844	Posted - 2017.05.08 15:23:36 - [4] - Quote See, this is how these discussions tend to go: Else: "... and that's why we have a problem." Someone: "I agree. What's your plan?" Else: "I don't have a plan. I think we've lost already." Someone: "But what are you going to do about it?" Else: "... gods and spirits." Here are things that have been suggested: 1) Assasinate the traitor on top. Prohibitively difficult to achieve. Results uncertain. 2) Start a civil war. Would invite an Amarr invasion, so untenable at this point. 3) Fight the toy war, keep your head down. and hope for the best. The Ushra'Khan way. 4) Ignore the unpleasantness, keep your head down, and keep on building and preparing in the Republic. Use toy war for practice. The Electus Matari way. 5) Go somewhere else where there are explosions to be had and eff it all until someone else comes up with a plan. Plenty of people do this, too. Personally appealing but not helpful. 6) Have a political debates and otherwise keep on talking about it, because capsuleers can somewhat safely voice objections that baseliners might be unable to. Talk is cheap.
Elsebeth Rhiannon SoE Roughriders Electus Matari 844	Posted - 2017.05.08 15:34:54 - [5] - Quote Ioannis Sepphiros wrote: As with anything in life, actions and talk is what one makes out of it. Maybe its time for different kind of discussions and different set of actions? If none of the above have been suggested and didnt work then either executing on them was wrong or they are fundamentally wrong. Which in any case would require a new set of thinking but most importantly executing on that thought. Please, go on.
Elsebeth Rhiannon SoE Roughriders Electus Matari 855	Posted - 2017.05.08 16:46:36 - [6] - Quote Ayallah wrote: words Now there's some noise and fire! From a pirate, granted, but at this point I'll take anything. A couple of corrections. 1) I said that the outrage against Karin Midular dissolving the parliament was justified. My critique is about the fact that if dismissing those who disagree causes such an outrage, why does not murder without trial? 2) I did not mean to imply the Elder Fleet was Karin's doing alone. I said it was "hers", as in, what happened was still during her government. Also, "plausible deniability". Look it up. 3) I do not think I have ever criticized the Republic or the tribes secretly stockpiling military resources. I admit my memory is spotty - reclonings do that - but since the whole point of my politics have always been maintaining peace as a way to prepare for war, that would go contrary to what I have been. 4) You are trying to make this an issue between the tribes. I did not mention the Brutor tribe once in my original post. You are so blinded by your Sanmatar's tribal rhetoric that you think this is about tribal politics. It is not. The story is much uglier. 5) I said the current government attempted to stop Federal medical care. Yes, they failed. Sadly it was not enough. 6) You say we are becoming more prosperous. You base that on exactly nothing. Do the math: the Empire and the Republic are pouring the same amount, roughly, of resources to the toy war. We are much, much smaller (look at a map). Even if we go forward, in absolutete terms, it is not enough, if we lose, proportionally. 7) Our people increasingly turn to foreign cults [1]. So much for newly revived tribal traditions. 8) I don't actually consider Sanmatar Shakor a very good dictator. I am not sure if he is even a dictator at this point anymore or just a poser. My impression is intelligent and capable, but he worked only as long as he could comfortably establish himself, and since then has done pretty much exactly nothing, letting his cronies do the work, such as there is [2]. Ioannis Sepphiros wrote: words In other words, you are saying, "please you come up with a plan and execute it". Which part of "I do not know how to fix this" was unclear? Ayallah wrote: Those who believe that the First Republic was destroyed by Shakor to create a dictatorship and that Karin Midular was assassinated will continue to do so. Those who do not care will continue to do so. This is a very telling slip of tongue with phrasing. Even in your mind, there are those who realize the situation and those who do not care.
Elsebeth Rhiannon SoE Roughriders Electus Matari 857	Posted - 2017.05.08 17:13:28 - [7] - Quote Miz; You want to know why I talk now, even though I have no solutions, no way forward. I speak now, because the silence has grown unbearable. I have held my tongue for years, but I cannot anymore. I cannot pretend the Parliament murders never happened. I cannot pretend an election with a single candidate and a record-low turnout is legitimate. I cannot pretend attacks on people who peacefully protest through art do not happen. I speak now, because I have grown to believe it does not matter anymore. I never said a word when I believed we could still buy time with silence, when I still believed Shakor had a plan, even if a risky one. I was ready to fight a war - remember? We all were. In unity, even if desperately. But the war never came, and now it grows late. And I speak now, because carrying this alone became too lonely. I might not know the solution. But maybe someone does who hears my words. Or maybe the government wakes up, hearing them, and we will fight our war. We might be going down, in flames or slowly crumbling. But at least I am not going down silent and alone.
Elsebeth Rhiannon SoE Roughriders Electus Matari 861	Posted - 2017.05.08 17:56:16 - [8] - Quote So, let me get this straight: you are basically arguing that the demonstrations that were used to argua for and to pretty much force our hand to the "reform" were actually never about that? Well, that fits.
Elsebeth Rhiannon SoE Roughriders Electus Matari 861	Posted - 2017.05.08 18:16:35 - [9] - Quote Arrendis wrote: I'm saying the demonstrations about the inaction on the Starkmanir issue were about the inaction on the Starkmanir issue, and not as you've presented them, a response to the dissolution of Parliament. Were they a call for reform? After a fashion. More a 'get off your butts and DO something', really. But you've presented them as protests about a thing that happened after the protests were underway, even according to your own citation. I apologize for my less than accurate wording. I did not mean to imply that everything was just peachy until then; I meant to say that she was rightfully called on the dissolution decision. I, again, point to the fact that I am not criticizing anyone for protesting at that point.
Elsebeth Rhiannon SoE Roughriders Electus Matari 867	Posted - 2017.05.08 20:08:22 - [10] - Quote Valerie Valate wrote: And this is why the Federation must be destroyed. The... what?
Elsebeth Rhiannon SoE Roughriders Electus Matari 874	Posted - 2017.05.09 05:36:36 - [11] - Quote Victoria Grey wrote: What can we really do? Unify and Discuss. So really a merging of all three options. This isn't a solution so much as a first step to a resolution. I have no say in anything that the various Matari aligned corps and alliances want but from my viewpoint, why not combine efforts of both Electus Matari and Ushra'Khan? I know that I may not be addressing the right people to suggest this but my honest opinion is the same as someone else on this thread: We need someone(s) influential/in the thick of things to come forward. Combine their efforts to do what? Which way is forward? I'm sorry if I am contrary and keep on coming back to this - but it is really at the heart of the issue. Gaven Lok'ri wrote: paraphrased: "I suggest you just pack up your toys and surrender" Nice try. It is by now a clearly established fact that if one side holds the complete field, exactly nothing happens. We also have no way whatsoever to enforce a ban on fighting, so even moral and efficiency concerns aside, your suggestion is not practical. Challis Drant wrote: Sometimes I think that the so called toy war is perfect stagnation Yes. And there is the fact that at its time, the Militia Act was a somewhat clever move: it allowed us to de-escalate from a full-out war after the Elder Fleet's actions. It is just that it cannot remain a permanent solution.
Elsebeth Rhiannon SoE Roughriders Electus Matari 876	Posted - 2017.05.09 11:14:16 - [12] - Quote Gaven Lok'ri wrote: My analysis office suggests that it would take several years without any moments of victory in the CEWPA war for the war on its own to topple the Usurpers. Your analysis office should advice you that this is completely unfeasible. There are always people willing to fight, and nothing to stop them. Even if everyone currently in space agreed to simply stop (which is implausible in itself), new captains will come from the academies every day with their eyes shining with the recruiter's promises of glory and isk. Quote: You seem to be after a silver bullet that will reset the situation to before the usurpation. I don't know what is the matter with people. I have said, repeatedly, that I do not think a solution exists. Yet some keep on asking me one, and others criticizing me of believing in silver bullets. Quote: You seem to be looking for the sting in anything I say. Reasonable enough, given history. Perhaps it will help if I elaborate on why I am interested in a solution to your problem that does not involve an Amarr invasion. Your concern for the safety of what you see as "your people" has never been in question or unclear in my eyes. Quote: The Matari state under Usurper leadership is, however, remarkably unpredictable and as such is dangerous. Maybe it is of some consolation to you then that they have been nothing but predictable for almost ten years now.
Elsebeth Rhiannon SoE Roughriders Electus Matari 876	Posted - 2017.05.09 12:02:13 - [13] - Quote Arrendis wrote: Elsebeth Rhiannon wrote: Maybe it is of some consolation to you then that they have been nothing but predictable for almost ten years now. Oh, I don't know. I don't think many people predicted Shakor turning up for the Empress' coronation. Ok, I give you that. And also thanks for actually making me laugh.
Elsebeth Rhiannon SoE Roughriders Electus Matari 876	Posted - 2017.05.09 14:22:43 - [14] - Quote Mitara Newelle wrote: You say that as if ten years is significant. That's actually not what I implied at all. But nice try anyway.
Elsebeth Rhiannon SoE Roughriders Electus Matari 877	Posted - 2017.05.09 16:33:25 - [15] - Quote Ayallah wrote: You seem to have no understanding of his place in the Tribal Republic. He cannot act legislation or decree on anything, he has no vote and may only resolve disagreements. And you seem to have no idea how power and influence actually work.
Elsebeth Rhiannon SoE Roughriders Electus Matari 878	Posted - 2017.05.09 18:14:58 - [16] - Quote Gaven Lok'ri wrote: Hmm, interesting. The idea thar the Usurpers have been predictable suggests that you consider Colelie to have been predictable. Not the exact events, no. But you seem to follow my thinking on that already, so maybe nothing more needs to be said on it. I'd rather not talk about Colelie, anyway.
Elsebeth Rhiannon SoE Roughriders Electus Matari 881	Posted - 2017.05.10 15:30:49 - [17] - Quote Pieter Tuulinen wrote: As much as I don't want to get involved in the disputes between the Empire and the Republic on an unpaid basis[quote] ... you are going to do it anyway. [quote]I think this is elementary statecraft. Yes, and I agree that this is reason. If you were us, however, would you bet your very existence on international politics following reason?
Elsebeth Rhiannon SoE Roughriders Electus Matari 882	Posted - 2017.05.10 17:06:41 - [18] - Quote Charles Cambridge Schmidt wrote: You'll take our relief money and you'll like it, missy! I'll take it if she doesn't want to.
Elsebeth Rhiannon SoE Roughriders Electus Matari 895	Posted - 2017.05.12 08:11:38 - [19] - Quote I like you, sisters; keep on talking.
Elsebeth Rhiannon SoE Roughriders Electus Matari 925	Posted - 2017.05.19 14:32:01 - [20] - Quote Telemicus Thrace wrote: words Well now, there is a name I haven't seen for a while.
Elsebeth Rhiannon SoE Roughriders Electus Matari 925	Posted - 2017.05.19 14:34:21 - [21] - Quote Also, let me stress, once more, that I do not currently speak for EM, in this thread or elsewhere.
Elsebeth Rhiannon SoE Roughriders Electus Matari 925	Posted - 2017.05.19 15:01:19 - [22] - Quote Arrendis wrote: Elsebeth Rhiannon wrote: I do not currently speak for EM WHO SPEAKS FOR KIN/THERM?!? Sorry, I'm in a weird mood.
Elsebeth Rhiannon SoE Roughriders Electus Matari 948	Posted - 2017.05.19 16:01:51 - [23] - Quote KillJoy Tseng wrote: Elsebeth Rhiannon wrote: ... I believe many in the alliance are sympathetic to what I say and/or to what others have seen in this thread... You mean like those of us who signed up for a corp you were heading? Well, some of you are probably just in to keep an eye on me. One of those morbid curiosity things.
Elsebeth Rhiannon SoE Roughriders Electus Matari 952	Posted - 2017.05.19 16:53:24 - [24] - Quote Heroes of the Rebellion. Yes, I'll keep on saying that every time someone brings up Firetails. Someone must hold up some standards here.

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